August 2026: Forests with Dr. Daniel Pratson

 Hello Listener,  

In this month's episode, we're joined by Dr. Daniel Pratson, a natural resources specialist with the University of Maryland Extension, talking all about the forests of Maryland.  We ask about how many forests are there in Maryland? Why they are so important? What can landowner do to help this unique ecosystem. 

 Resource used in this episode:  

•  National forest owner survey: https://research.fs.usda.gov/programs/nwos 
• Maryland Five-Million Trees Initiative: https://dnr.maryland.gov/forests/Pages/5-million-trees.aspx  
• Woods in your backyard: 1-9 acres https://extension.umd.edu/resource/woodland-management-woods-your-backyard/ 
•  Country Foresters - DNR: https://dnr.maryland.gov/forests/Pages/contacts.aspx 
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UMdFSE 

We also have our : 

• Native Plant of the Month: Common Hackberry
• Bug of the Month: Caterpillar Hunter Beetle
•  Monthly Garden Tips

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 The Garden Thyme Podcast is brought to you by the University of Maryland Extension. Hosts are Mikaela Boley- Principal Agent Associate (Talbot County) for Horticulture; Rachel Rhodes- Senior Agent Associate for Horticulture (Queen Anne's County); and Emily Zobel- Senior Agent Associate for Agriculture (Dorchester County).

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Transcript

  Note: The Garden Thyme Podcast is produced for the ear and is designed to be heard. If you are able, we strongly encourage you to listen to the audio, which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain spelling and grammatical errors.   

:Up Beat Music:

Mikaela

Hello listener, welcome to the University of Maryland Extension Presents: The Garden Time podcast, where we talk about getting down and dirty in your garden. We're your hosts. I'm Mikaela.

Rachel

I'm Rachel.

Emily

And I'm Emily.

Mikaela

And in this month's episode, we're joined by Dr. Daniel Bradson, a natural resources specialist with the University of Maryland Extension, talking all about the forests of Maryland. Welcome to the podcast, Daniel. It's good to have you here with us.

Daniel

I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Mikaela

We as nature enthusiasts know how incredibly important that forests are. But we thought we would bring Daniel on today because we really want to quantify what forests do for us, both as a commodity, but also otherwise as a natural resource. So as we get started into our interview, Daniel, one of the first things we like to do is talk about your background and who you are. We know you're with the University of Maryland and we're happy to have you. Talk to us a little bit about your, your educational background and what you do at the University of Maryland.

Daniel

Sure, yeah. I like to preface by saying I'm, I'm a real thorough suburbanite. I'm not someone that grew up sort of in and out in the woods a ton. I think most of my outdoor time was based on my parents just kicking my brothers and I out of the house. But I grew up in Leonardtown, so in St. Mary's County, and I ultimately went to St. Mary's College for undergraduate, for my undergrad degree. And when I was going there, they didn't have an environmental studies major, and that's really what I wanted to do. So I did what was called a student-designed major, and I took a lot of courses from the biology minor, from the environmental studies— they had a minor there, so I took some of those courses— and then I was really interested in environmental education, so I took education studies courses as well. So I tried to, you know, link those all together and say that, you know, I was a certified or justifiable, I guess, environmental educator at the back end of that. And then after graduating, I worked at a wastewater treatment plant, which was down the road from where my parents lived.

Daniel

So I moved back home to my chagrin. But I got a really cool job working as a chemist in a lab for a couple years, which was sort of a left turn, I guess, to a degree from, you know, what I was doing at school. And so I worked there for a little while, but, you know, living at home has a shelf life. So I wanted to go back to school, and I saw an opportunity down at Virginia Tech, and it was a funded opportunity where I could do research on environmental education programming. So I was really lucky and I got to do a master's and it was sort of all paid for with this graduate assistantship. And what I did was I, you know, worked on programming evaluations. So a lot of what we do in Extension, I got a taste of during my master's. And I worked with a research tech and we traveled, I think, like to 10 or 12 different states over the course of the 6-month period, observing programs that like nature centers would run or national parks or nonprofits, things like that. And we just tracked everything and we looked to see what in that program led to outcomes of interest.

Daniel

You know, we surveyed students and then we observed what was going on. And then coursework-wise, I took a lot of forestry classes there too. So it was this really, again, sort of like interdisciplinary output from my master's. So I had a lot of research chops in more of the social science and evaluation world, and then some coursework in forestry. And then I went to University of Vermont for my PhD, and my research there was trying to lean even more into sort of applying that social science research into forest management applications. And so that was also a funded research grant, and I got to work with maple syrup producers across the state, and I did a lot of work some light economics, some work on kind of the non-material values and, you know, benefits that people get from forests. So anyway, I graduated and a lot of life happened at once. You know, my wife got pregnant, we were trying to figure out where to go, and then this job came open at UMD, and I thought it was a great opportunity to take some of that you know, teaching experience that I've had up to this point, and then, you know, apply it to natural resource and forest, you know, issues here in the state.

Daniel

So, um, yeah, so I started in March of last year and it's been a whirlwind ever since.

Emily

Well, we are glad to have you.

Rachel

And it sounds fascinating.

Emily

I feel like we've all kind of weaved different courses to end up in Extension. 

Mikaela

Well, and you're sitting in a unique position of being in this intersection between human activity and natural resources, which is always kind of a difficult thing to navigate. So, including the definition of what a forest is.

Daniel

Yes.

Mikaela

So we adore fun facts. I will have more of my own later, but do you have any facts and information about forests in Maryland that you would want to share with listeners?

Daniel

Yeah, so I'll do my, uh, sort of general spiel on what's going on with forests around the state. So Maryland has, I don't know how many million acres of, uh, you know, land, but forests take up about 36 to 39% of that, you know, terrestrial landscape across the state. So that equates to about 2.5 million acres of forest land. And maybe that's where the forest differentiation comes in, because in that stat, that doesn't refer to like trees over a street or, you know, individual trees in a city. That's called canopy cover. Forest means an acre of contiguous trees. If that makes sense. Or, you know, if there's a timber harvest and it's kind of bare but trees are coming back, like, that's still considered under that forest definition here. So if you think about a forest that way, like an acre of trees, there are, you know, 2.5 million of those across the state, which is pretty impressive, I think, just because of how densely populated Maryland really is. The Forest Service estimates that red maple is the most prevalent tree species across all of our forests in the, in the state, followed by loblolly pine and sweetgum, which again totally makes sense.

Daniel

You see sweetgum growing pretty much everywhere from like the Piedmont east. So yeah, lots of those.

Mikaela

Do you get it a lot out in the Piedmont, in the mountain region as well?

Daniel

I don't think it's as prevalent out there. I just know like when people— it's like this really aggressive— it's like a pioneer species when you're thinking of succession. So if, if land is cleared, if stuff is, you know, harvested and a ton of light hits, you know, forested area, especially in you know, Piedmont East, like generally what comes up first is sweetgum and it can be pretty aggressive, a weedy tree as people say.

Mikaela

A very memorable moment for me in my internship when I was still in college is I was removing sweetgum out of a marsh and it was brutal. It was like in August and July. And so I have a very visceral reaction to sweetgum, although I do like them. I like them as a tree, but not, um, if I have to manage them.

Daniel

Well, I've heard anecdotally that the veneer wood from sweetgum is starting to increase in value, so there is some use to mature, well-formed sweetgum trees. I just think there's— they, they tend to crowd out anything else that you might want in a forested area.

Emily

Still beats a calorie pear.

Mikaela

That's true.

Daniel

Yes, it does.

Mikaela

Almost everything does.

Daniel

So like, another, uh, fun fact is that if you're thinking of volume, so like how much space trees are taking up, the top species that takes up basically the most space in our forests is, uh, yellow poplar or tulip poplar trees. So like, those are, you know, generally the most, um, common in terms of like how how much, you know, volume they're taking up within our forests. Who owns a forest interstate? So like a lot of states in the East Coast and the Northeast in particular, most of the forest land in Maryland is owned by private owners. So that can be individuals or families, LLCs, trusts, you know, you name it. So about 73% of that 2.5 million acres is in the hands of private ownerships. And those estimates, you know, they range from like 150,000 to 175,000 different ownerships. And so when I was talking about social science, I think there's a lot of interest in understanding what those 150,000 people are thinking and what they want to see out of their forests for just because such a small group has such a large influence on, you know, a large majority of the forest resource that our state has right now.

Daniel

And then government owns the rest.

Mikaela

So not to put you on the spot, I don't know if you have this information, but what would you say the average size for a private forest is?

Daniel

That's a great question. So the U.S. Forest Service does a great job of collecting a bunch of data about forests across the country, and one of the tools that they use is called the National Woodland Owner Survey. And so instead of measuring what trees are on the ground, they survey a bunch of forest owners, and then they extrapolate out and say, like, here's sort of what's going on per state. So in Maryland, this, uh, NWOS, the survey, uh, notes that 88% of ownerships, of these private ownerships, own parcels that are 1 to 9 acres in size. So they're small is what is the point. Like, a thriving majority of private forest owners in our state have, you know, 1 to 9 acre parcels. And then, you know, 10 to 19 acres, that's about 5%. 20 to 49 acres, that's about 4%, and it just drops off pretty much to, you know, fractions of a percent after that. So yeah, it's a lot of— I wouldn't say fragmented, but they're, they're parcelized forests. Lots of, you know, smaller ownerships across, across our state.

Mikaela

Which I imagine has ecological impacts as well. Fragmented.

Daniel

Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, to an extent it just makes, um, planning around that a little bit more challenging, and it makes management a little bit more challenging too, because some contractors, some loggers, they need like a— to make their work pay out for them, or at least they can break even, they need a large you know, parcel to work on. So a 2-acre wooded area behind someone's home, it's, I think, sometimes hard to convince professionals to come in and do work on that. So what people are doing, like the Alliance for the Chesapeake Bay is a nonprofit. I know a couple other groups are working on this, but they're trying to develop these what's called stewardship networks where they get neighbors to talk to one another, and they say, "Oh hey, you have 2 acres here, and you abut this person that has 9 acres, and that, you know, abuts this property that has 20, and maybe you all can talk and get together and have a contractor come out and work on all of these parcels together." So it's just worth their time as well. So anyway, you know, there's solutions to this, but you kind of have to be creative when Most of the parcels are smaller in nature.

Emily

So can you talk a little bit about kind of forest management? And I know a lot of us kind of have mixed feelings, especially when we hear things like cutting and logging, because I think as humans we get emotionally attached to trees. So the idea of people cutting down trees can kind of be like gut-wrenching. But I also know, having taken some forestry classes, that like removing some trees out of the forest is really helpful and meaningful for a healthy forest. So can you touch in on kind of why we kind of do these processes, like why this is important for a healthy forest ecosystem?

Mikaela

Yeah, sure.

Daniel

And to totally empathize with you, I, I mean, growing up in Southern Maryland, being near the Pax River base, there's a lot of like the community grew growing up there, I saw a lot of change, and a lot of that, you know, is cutting down trees for development. And forest management is not that. Trees are cut, but it's for different purposes. And, you know, what ultimately happens is a forest is left behind. So to just take a super quick step back, like, forests, before people started playing around with them, were always disturbed in a way. Like, hurricanes would come, or storms would come, or insects would come, and and kill trees within a forest. And so forests grow and adapt over time by these periodic disturbances. And what that means is, you know, trees get— they fall over, they die, and more light is allowed to shine down on the forest floor. And the seeds that are in the soil, you know, respond to that light and heat and they sprout up. And there's great, like a new cohort of trees that comes in. So, um, forest management just tries to do that, you know, it's sort of an artificial way to manipulate how much light hits the forest floor.

Daniel

So that can involve cutting a lot of trees, like a clear cut, you know, cutting all the trees down in a defined acreage. And there are certain trees that really need that to respond. It's like thinking about the West where you have avalanches and volcanoes, right? Like crazy, crazy events that like literally just replace whole forested areas, you know, acres and acres of fires like that, you know, big wildfires. Some forest species need that to then kind of come back up and be competitive and sort of regrow the forest. The Northeast and where we are, you know, obviously we don't have avalanches, especially on the Eastern Shore, but, um—

Emily

Don't say anything yet, it could happen. The weather's being weird enough this year.

Daniel

I guess we did have a blizzard this year, so yeah. But the point is, you know, management is looking to keep forests as forest and keep them, you know, resilient to changes over time. And what that means is just, you know, seeing what types of trees grow there, what tends to like hanging out there, and sometimes cutting trees, sometimes leaving them alone, sometimes planting trees. Sometimes that could just be dealing with the herbaceous, you know, non-natives in the forest floor, just to open up room for the native stuff to grow in. But yeah, cutting trees is not something that I think the public is super into. I actually recently sent out a survey with some other people just to ask members of the public what they thought about cutting trees, because there's many anecdotal conversations where that comes up, like 'Oh, we don't want to have this management done or do this because I think the public's going to have a really strong outcry.' And most people responded that they preferred trees and forests to, you know, be left behind instead of cut. But I asked a couple follow-up questions about, you know, so what are different instances where it might be okay to cut trees?

Daniel

And I think 88% of the total sample said, yeah, if it's looking to support wildlife or looking to support healthy ecosystems, then maybe it is okay to cut trees. So I think being able to sort of make that connection between, you know, this is actually sometimes necessary and sometimes really beneficial for forests to cut out some trees and, uh, you know, allow the good ones or the really well-formed ones or the healthy ones to, to grow and, you know, to spread their seeds around so they can sort of regenerate a future healthy crop of trees, like, that, that can be really beneficial. So in my estimation, forest management tries to capture that.

Mikaela

Well, that's great that people are able to recognize, though. I think that's, that's step number one. They realize there is a reason why you might want to do some management, and they maybe just don't know how to connect the two thoughts.

Rachel

Together.

Daniel

One note on that too, like, there's a lot of research that shows that stuff that like the Master Gardeners work on, even the Baywise people, like, if you can manage your residential garden or like a little bit of the natural areas behind your residence in a way that, um, you know, kind of aligns with creating more habitat or creating more opportunities for pollinators, things like that, it can kind of create these links between the forested areas and the residential areas. Um, so it creates a little bit of connectivity in this, in this habitat. So yeah, to your point, I just think engaging people that aren't, you know, the, the classic landowner is something that I think is important.

Mikaela

Absolutely, because even if they don't own land specifically, they may be advocates in public spaces for incorporating more trees or native plants or whatever. So yeah, agree, we're on board with you. All right, have we reached the point where we can try and define what a forest is, or is it still too, too early? Gotta ease into it.

Daniel

Well, like I said, so I generally operate with what the feds operate with, which is that a forest is, what, 10% canopy cover of trees, and the minimum area is an acre in size. So that, in my estimation, constitutes a forest. And that's again so that, you know, we can use the data that the feds collect to then go to our teaching too. What is cool though is that the Chesapeake Conservancy or the— I forget— some entity— maybe we can edit that out, I forget, I can get the right name— but there's this land use/land cover dataset and they get really fine-grained information on stuff like tree cover over impervious surfaces and tree cover over like lawns and tree cover over, you know, smaller patches of trees, basically. So again, not necessarily within that, like, it has to be 1 acre of forest, but that land cover dataset, um, I think helps to capture the rest of the trees that are around that, uh, you know, might do what we were just talking about, kind of create that connectivity between the acres and the, you know, smaller portions of trees.

Emily

Okay, so I think that, that summarizes our what is a forest versus just a stand of trees or— still beneficial, still amazing, still want them, but maybe not officially defined as like a forest thing. So how important is the forest industry to the state of Maryland and/or kind of the Mid-Atlantic region?

Daniel

Yeah, that's a great question. The forest— so the, the most recent report that I pulled up states that the forest industry generates over $2.7 billion in direct economic output, which, you know, we all think of crabs and oysters in Maryland and kind of the percentage. So like ag is the big one for resource-based industries, Ag takes up about 86% of the pie. Forestry is the next largest industry, and that's estimated around 13%. And then seafood is about 1 to 2%. So I was surprised hearing that, actually, like how much more economic impact the forestry industry has. But yeah, it, it's pretty significant. I think there are issues with the forestry industry in that, especially in our state, like, mills have shut down because mills are extremely expensive to run, and I think there's liabilities with it, and there's workforce issues as well. But wood processors aren't really as common as they, I think, were on the landscape. And so, you know, what happens is if people get their timber harvested, you know, they can employ local loggers, they employ local foresters, but then that material sometimes is sold to mills that are located in different states, like a lot in Virginia or Pennsylvania, sometimes West Virginia, I think.

Daniel

You know, beyond that, like I, you know, I said, there's, there's a lot of forests in the state. A lot of people have smaller woodlots. There's just like a ton of opportunity for people to work in this industry. Again, I just think it takes a different— it just, it might look differently than what it looked like, I think, 20 or 30 years ago. Like, for instance, there's a place in Baltimore City called Camp Small, and it's a sawmill that has run, you know, it takes all of the trees that fall in the city streets, and they take the trees and they mill them down into lumber and to wood chips and, you know, all these different products. And so I think it's this really cool and I just think like creative way to like keep this industry viable, just like, but using potentially different sources and thinking about it just a little bit differently from the classic, like, you know, someone owns 100 acres and we can count on them every 20 years to do a harvest and that will feed feed this, this mill down the road. So anyway, that was a, a windy answer there, but, um, the forest industry is, is pretty significant in our state.

Daniel

And yeah, throughout the region as well, especially as you go to the, you know, upper northeast, like where I was in Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine. There's a lot— forestry is a big deal up there.

Emily

So I'm gonna mildly tangent here, but As a millennial flashback, will you drive behind a logger truck?

Daniel

Like in, uh, Final Destination? Um, I try not to, to be honest with you.

Mikaela

Yeah, that really is— it's really stuck in our heads because I will not.

Daniel

It really has.

Emily

Yeah, everyone I know is like, will not. I think it's a millennial thing.

Daniel

I think, yeah, with that, I, I tend to steer clear of those trucks just because there's a lot.

Emily

Yeah, they're heavy.

Mikaela

Like, there's a sawmill down the road from our house, and I inevitably get stuck behind the truck pulling out every single time. And it's a very narrow road, like, no, I'm not passing anybody, like, nothing's happening. I gotta sit.

Emily

Yeah.

Mikaela

Would you say they're primarily sawing, um, like loblolly pine, is that probably the majority of what they're doing?

Daniel

On the Eastern Shore, yeah. But the, you know, so Eastern Shore Forest Products, I think they're pretty, um, they're less discriminatory, I think, with the type, the species that come in, um, because they're able just to, you know, chip it up and use it as bedding. And, you know, it's all just kind of like, it's not pulpwood, but it's the tops and sort of the non-marketable stuff. And I think you can, you can have some hardwood trees there too. But yeah, generally on the Eastern Shore, I think you have loblolly pine, but you know, there's oaks, there's beeches, there's again, some sweetgum if there is a market for it. But then again, as you go like across the bridge, a little bit further towards Central Maryland, like tulip poplar is just everywhere. So, um, like in Clarksville, I'm actually working with Jonathan to sort of develop a harvest plan, and those woods are just pretty much all tulip poplar— some oak, but mostly that. And then way oakier as you get further west, um, you know, the Washington and Allegheny and Garrett.

Mikaela

Yeah, because when you were describing the, the highest number of species that we find in Maryland. Everything you named was really fast-growing, early successional trees, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I guess that makes sense. They grow pretty fast.

Daniel

Yeah, which is another, you know, pro for having forest management. I think some foresters I've talked to have noted that, um, you know, if you think about natural succession, like a grassland growing up into a forest, sometimes it just stalls out. So, you know, tulip poplar is a pretty fast-growing, you know, early successional species, and, you know, they're growing in these areas that really want to be oak-hickory forests. And so some of these forests, I think, as the forester said, just kind of like stall out at this point. And, you know, a little bit of management can help to open up some areas to let those oak sprouts come up and, you know, kind of continue the progression on towards a more mature oak forest, which, you know, habitat love— you know, excuse me, wildlife love.

Mikaela

So, right. Actually, that's— it's a really good segue into our next question, which is, do you have any advice or resources that would be helpful for even small parcel owners?

Daniel

Yeah, as you mentioned, our team is pretty new, so I'm about a year and change in, and I work with Nicole. She's the logger education coordinator, and she's, I think, less than a year. So the point is, we're putting together in-person workshops and programming that will help people, but the stuff that is sort of evergreen and that lives online and that is worth checking out is just like the mountain of Extension publications that Jonathan Case wrote during his time at Maryland Extension. He also created this course called The Woods in Your Backyard, And my colleague Andrew Kling runs it 2 times a year, so once in the spring and once in the fall. And it's a self-paced online course, but you also have these monthly check-ins with the cohort that's taking the class. So from what I've heard and the feedback that I've seen from that course is that people really like being able to sit down with one another, or, you know, call into a Zoom call once a month and just check in and see where people are. And generally, like, a speaker comes in and talks about a topic. But that whole curriculum is designed for the, like, 1 to 9 acre, more residential woodlot owner, or a person that, you know, owns like 3 acres of lawn and they want to sort of convert it into more of a natural area.

Daniel

You know, there's there's tips and tricks in that book and that curriculum to help people do that. I'm always around to answer questions, and then I always refer people to their county forester as well if they are interested in getting a sense of what's going on. If they have, you know, a couple acres of forest or more, the county foresters that work for our state DNR, you know, go out and do site visits, and they're able to bring provide a detailed forest management plan that someone could follow. And basically that plan just tells people— it's almost like an inventory of what you have going on there, the value of it, and what you could potentially do to, you know, protect that value over time or enhance it. So yeah, but we have a YouTube page with our Woodland Stewardship Program, so there's lots of you know, prior webinars and lectures and things like that on there. So we have a, just a ton of information on our site. And I noticed that you're going to talk about Hackberry. We also have a newsletter that comes out called Branching Out, and that is quarterly. And in each newsletter, sometimes we have, you know, news about what's going on with forests in the region or You know, I— the point is, like, there's forest-related stuff that goes in this newsletter, and we always do a little section on a native tree.

Daniel

So I wrote one about hackberry, I think, for the last— or one or two—

Mikaela

did you really?

Daniel

One or two issues ago.

Mikaela

So yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Well, maybe, maybe you can add to what I'm going to talk about. I don't think so.

Daniel

It was a really— it was like, I don't know, hackberries are cool. I think they're great. I think they're like super funky looking, but the more I learned about them, the more I was like, yeah, these are cool trees. I think pretty decent wildlife trees too.

Mikaela

Very. Yeah, they're, they're multifaceted. Are they the perfect tree in the landscape? No, but I'll talk about that later. And this, you kind of answered this, but how small is too small to be of consequence when we're talking about like natural resources at home?

Daniel

Of consequence, like ecologically or economically?

Rachel

Or yeah, like maybe—

Mikaela

what's the way I want to say it, Emily? Like, when should we start worrying about it? Or like, can it make a difference? That's— I guess that's what I'm getting at. Can it make a difference if I only have like half an acre or an acre?

Daniel

I'm a firm believer that yes, it can. Um, maybe not a half an acre, will that provide interior dwelling space for like a Scarlet Tanager? Probably not. But if it is the space where you can learn and create a connection to a forested area and feel like you're stewarding, you know, nature for future generations, for it to sort of be this resilient little, little piece of the world, I think that's absolutely worth it. So, um, you know, I, like I mentioned, during my PhD work I delved a lot into the kind of squishier values side of things and the non-economic benefits that are associated with forests. And yeah, I see that with the Master Gardener groups. Like, when people are— have a little bit of agency and can kind of see their work, make a difference even in a small plot, it just creates this shift that like, oh, we should, you know, we can do this if we all kind of take this agency. So, you know, I think ecologically, like, yeah, you probably need large acreage areas to make a difference for your species of interest. Like some bird people are working on massive, you know, 100-acre, many hundreds of acres sort of landscape restoration initiatives that fold in different habitat types and, you know, do management to create a bunch of habitat for a lot of different bird species.

Daniel

But yeah, again, my thought is in our state we don't have as much of that. So I think, you know, leaning into, you know, the, the value that smaller acreage or less than acre parcels can yield is really important. And like I said, you know, the Forest Service— I keep linking back to them, but I know a couple of people that are based in the Baltimore field office and they work a lot on like these forest patches across the city of Baltimore. And the more research they do, the more they see that, you know, if you do a little bit of work in them, they can't, you know, like native birds come back in and you releasing pollinators and like, it creates a difference even in this super urban environment. So, yeah. So I think I'm a firm believer that, you know, small is still impactful.

Mikaela

Well, and I think you mentioned it earlier, it may be that, yeah, your property's smaller, you only have so much you can do, but if your neighbors also do it, or maybe even your entire neighborhood starts to do it. Um, it's kind of a collective opportunity. Now, drought stress is something, um, we're adding to the question because I know we went into summer in a drought and we're like barely kind of getting by, at least out here on the Eastern Shore. We're not even back to where we should be. Um, what kind of effect do you think we'll see on trees or even just the landscapes as we approach fall?

Daniel

Yeah, that's a great question, and I've, I've been meaning to do more work. Like, for fall colors, for instance, I'm not totally sure. I think I see— I feel like I've read conflicting information about that each season. Like, oh, it's been a really wet year, so we're gonna have great colors, or, oh, it's been a really dry year, so we're gonna have great colors. Um, so I don't think I can answer that super fully, but I just know that drought, you know, it's stresses trees. I don't think they grow as well. And, you know, extremely wet conditions, some trees hate that too. But I think my mind jumps to, well, given today, right, driving in, it was like orange outside, you know, the fire risk increases just with drought. Maryland, you know, we have forest fires here as well. So, you know, I think that drought definitely increases that risk. And then in the fall when it gets a little bit windier and cooler, you know, that risk, it's just heightened even more. So not to sound super doom and gloom, but you know, if everything is all dried out, uh, you know, things can light really quickly.

Daniel

So I think that, um, drought again stresses the trees, but it just really really increases that fire risk.

Emily

I was actually down in Blackwater. I would have been like a few months ago and they were doing a prescribed burn in an area, which is kind of neat.

Daniel

So the Eastern Shore, I mean, I think it's the Burn Association or something. I think they're super active on the shore. And I've heard that feelings are much more mixed, you know, in Western Maryland, just because, you know, fires can get out of hand and, you know, go to different properties. But it is cool to see how active and effective that burn sort of coalition is on the shore, because I think it's having a real impact on having the sort of resilient habitat come back and, you know, foster species of interest.

Mikaela

There's some kind of sense of safety doing it out here because at some point it's going to run into water. Like it really can't spread too far.

Daniel

And it's flat, so I guess you can kind of see. I don't know, it just, it seems like, and if it's fire-adapted tree, like I, I get why if I, you know, if I was living out in Western, I'd be terrified to have a burn on my property just because what if it spreads and like wipes out everything, or what if, you know, it jumps the, the property boundary as you know, boundaries are not— like, they're porous. So yeah, I think, um, I get why there's hesitation, uh, for sort of widespread adoption of that. And, you know, I think it doesn't make sense in all instances. Oaks love fire, so I think there are instances where it could be really effective in western Maryland. But, um, again, I just think there's a bit more hesitation.

Emily

Right.

Mikaela

Well, and with the drought map looking the way it does. Nothing, nothing's gonna happen for a while. Other parting suggestions, resources, or thoughts for listeners?

Daniel

So maybe like some shameless advertisement, I guess. Uh, we're gonna be setting up some woodland training. So like the Woodland Stewards program was something that Extension has run in the past, and we recently received some money from, uh, DNR to reinvigorate that. So nice, keep a lookout for that. There's going to be a course specifically for Eastern Shore landowners, or, you know, within the area, and then at Southern Maryland too. So like the Western Shore. So we'll be running classes there. The, you know, when and the format still to be determined. That's still kind of under development. But I'm excited about that, you know, just that we get some like excited landowners that can get trained and, you know, kind of figure out, feel like empowered to do what they want to do on their property. You want to join in?

Mikaela

No, I was just going to ask you if, if people wanted to stay updated on when those things are happening, what would be the best way? Like sign up for the newsletter or like a website?

Daniel

I would highly suggest, yeah, that Branching Out newsletter. It goes, it gets sent out through a listserv, like an email listserv. And so anytime I run an event or Nicole runs an event or, you know, Bill Hubbard's probably going to start sending stuff through there. So whenever we do anything, I email it through that listserv. So that would be the best place to get up-to-date information on when that's coming down the road.

Mikaela

Perfect, because I want to join in. I'm an Eastern Shore landowner. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Daniel, for taking the time to come on the podcast today. We, we love talking trees, so, and I know that's not all you do, but, uh, we really appreciated you sharing everything that you had today.

Daniel

No, thanks for having me. It's great talking to you.

Mikaela

We actually alluded a little bit to the native plant of the month earlier in our conversation with Daniel. My Native Plant of the Month is common hackberry, or Celtis occidentalis. So in celebration of talking about forests this month, I decided to name a tree as my Native Plant of the Month. The common hackberry is not one that we run into very often here on the Eastern Shore, but it is found widely throughout the Midwest and along some of the East Coast. So this would be something you encounter more in like the Piedmont region. So the hackberry has a very medium stature, but it makes a great shade tree that reaches about 40 to 60 feet high. It is a fast-growing tree, which is why a lot of people like to use it. And I don't even know where to start with all the fun attributes about this tree. It has edible fruits that are favored by birds and small mammals. It's moderately deer-resistant. As well as having a canopy that provides critical habitat. So birds really love nesting in this tree. It's got a pretty dense canopy. The hackberries also support a wide variety of insects, including serving as a host species for the hackberry emperor, the question mark, mourning cloak, American snout, and tawny emperor butterflies.

Mikaela

The emperor butterflies are specifically attracted to the rotting fruit to feed on instead of the flowers. So that's kind of an interesting fact because some, some butterflies, as lovely as they look, actually prefer like rotting fruit or even dung as their food source. So that's kind of a fun thing.

Emily

Mmm, yummy.

Mikaela

I know, love them rotting fruits.

Rachel

Well, I— you guys are going to be so excited. I have a rabbit hole about rotting fruit in my tips.

Mikaela

Okay. The hackberry used to belong to the elm family, but is now part of the hemp family, weirdly enough. The mature trees have a straight central trunk with arching branches in a shape that has become popular as a landscape or street tree. It does grow in full sun to partial shade, and it prefers well-drained soils, as many plants do. But it does take a lot of crap, okay? It takes wind, it takes urban conditions, so many different soil types, alkaline conditions or alkaline soils, and salt. But what it doesn't do is tolerate coastal or maritime conditions, as the wood decays very quickly in humid and moist conditions. So that might explain why we don't see a lot of it out here on the coastal plain, but certainly is a tree that we'll find in forests across the eastern United States. The bark is really cool. It's very corky. With deep furrows and ridges. It's pretty distinctive in winter. It's one of those plants you might be able to ID just from the bark alone. But the leaves themselves are arrow- to lance-shaped with serrated edges and uneven leaf bases, which is why I think it used to belong in the elm family, because that's a big characteristic of the leaf shape for elm trees.

Mikaela

But there's another good distinguishing characteristic to help identify this tree, And the fall color is actually kind of nice. It turns like a lime green to like a yellow. So it's not like super orangey or red or anything, but it does have kind of a pleasing yellow color. Now hackberry does have some cultural issues if planted in the wrong location. There's a few insect pests that this tree can get, including Asian wooly hackberry aphid, scale, hackberry nipple gall. Um, and then for diseases, it can get powdery mildew, leaf spot, leaf rot and root rot are among the biggest issues. However, what's kind of a fun fact about this tree is it is immune to Dutch elm disease, which is what made it a great alternative street tree choice when the American elms were starting to, to get this disease and were taken down because it has kind of a similar shape both in canopy and leaf shape. Okay, this is my favorite fun fact, and I don't know why it makes me laugh so much, but the scientific name or the genus comes from the Greek word for another tree. So like the specific epithet means western, which feels kind of like a misnomer since this species is specifically east of the Rockies.

Mikaela

But the genus just stands for another tree. Like someone decided to name this tree like, oh my God, we have so many. It's just another tree. Like there's nothing interesting about it. It's just another tree.

Emily

Aww.

Rachel

My god, that's so cute.

Mikaela

That's how I envision them naming this.

Emily

Like, "God, I'm sick of naming trees." Do have to say the hackberry does have really cool looking bark.

Mikaela

It does.

Emily

Like, I really almost wish that we could get these on the shores because this bark is very neat looking.

Mikaela

I know, it just doesn't like the maritime climate. She's a delicate lady. I have eaten the fruits of this, and they're oddly— they're pretty sweet, but very nutty. Like, there's not much of the fruit, it's a lot of like seed. It's interesting. I just thought it was kind of a unique pick.

Emily

I felt like we needed a cool beetle for August. It's a little hot out, so we needed just a really cool bug, and this is one that is one of my favorites, and I oftentimes get it brought in to me or report it in kind of the late summer months. So this is the fiery searcher or caterpillar hunter beetle, and its scientific name is Callimosis scurubator. This is a very beneficial beetle. It is predatory both in the adult and the larvae stage, so it's a good one to have, and you oftentimes find it in kind of more foresty-like or tree-type settings. They are found in North America along the East Coast, but have also been found as far south as Mexico, Venezuela, and Guatemala. It is a larger beetle, and it is in fact the largest ground beetle in the United States, and it measures about an inch and a fourth. It is a, a significant-sized beetle. And they are predatory, so you're going to see really long legs on them, and they have pretty big eyes. So again, it is one of those carabid beetles, so big eyes, long legs, predatory, so very much meant for running around catching prey.

Emily

And these are flat-out gorgeous beetles. So they have this very neat iridescentness to them. So you're going to have kind of a metallic green elytra, so those hardened back wings of theirs, are going to be a green hue, but then on the light, they're gonna have a reddish-orange undertone with them. So very eye-catching. And then it's got some dark blue on the top of it. So right behind their head, you have the prothoracic shield, and this is oftentimes like a deep metallic blue looking to it with a copper-orange ring. And this kind of gives them that flamey motif. Which is where that fiery nickname comes from. Now if you flip it over, you have like a metallic rainbow kind of hue going on here, and their legs are like a purple-blue coloration to them. Super pretty, pretty beetle. That being said, they are pretty much nocturnal, so you don't oftentimes see this coloration if you were to see them like running and scurrying around. So daytime is when you're really going to appreciate these colors, but they often hide during the day because they just don't like being out. These are night owls. So they hunt down and feast on free-ranging caterpillars as well as other soft-bodied insects, hence the name caterpillar hunter.

Emily

And they will live for about 2 to 3 years, spending the winter underneath bark or down in the soil. So these are one of our most significant insect predators that is capable of having a substantial impact on population density of our general defoliating caterpillars. This is one that particularly we have lots of documentation of them going after things like the forest tent caterpillar or the spongy moth caterpillars as well. Particularly not only when these stages are in their larvae caterpillar stage, but also people have documented them feeding on that pupation stage as well. So the adults can live anywhere between like 2 to even 4 years. They've documented in certain areas. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, it's closer closer to like 2 or 3, but their entire life cycle does get completed in 1 year. So you have that larvae stage taking place, the pupation stage, and then adulthood. And then as an adult, they're living those extra years. So the female beetle will lay her eggs usually in kind of late spring through early summer, so May through July. The eggs are laid into the soil and they'll eventually hatch into larvae. The larvae are predatorial, and much like the adult form, they consume lots of soft-bodied larvae insects.

Emily

So in this case, they go after kind of some of the smaller caterpillars or grubs and stuff like that in the soil. So once they've kind of gone through their last stage of larva-hood, which generally takes about like 9 days to 14 days, they will burrow into the soil and they pupate in the soil. And this takes about 2 weeks, and then they emerge as an adult and then proceed to go feast upon all of the soft-bodied insects that are in the environment. During the winter, they'll hide in the leaf litter and underneath leaves and barks. So again, this is another great reason to leave your leaf litter or to make those leaf litter piles, especially in and around kind of trees or more wild-like settings. So Uh, you can definitely leave your leaves as like a garden mulch, but making that big leaf pile with some branches in like the back corner underneath some of your trees would be great. They are primary nocturnal hunters, um, and tend to be most active in kind of the spring and summer. While they are technically considered a ground beetle and can be found scurrying around on the ground, they also can climb trees, which is really important because a lot of those caterpillars that they like to feast upon are up in the trees.

Emily

So they have documented them at nighttime kind of climbing up trees or flying up to the tree branches. So these are a really great bug to have in and around your garden or your landscape setting and so forth, because they just feed on so many of those caterpillar pests. Now they themselves are also a really amazing food source for some of our small mammals, so things like skunks and raccoons and possums. And also birds as well. So super cool bug, one of my favorites. I think a lot of people see their size and get really like scared by them even though they are so pretty, but they are super beneficial in your garden. So if you're lucky enough to see one, give it a little thumbs up and let it be on its way.

Mikaela

They are so pretty.

Rachel

They're beautiful.

Mikaela

Now they remind me a lot of like the green June beetles, how might you be able to tell them apart?

Emily

Yes, so because they do have that greenish look, you could potentially do— and they are big. I think something to note about this is that these guys, because they're a ground beetle, have a very different shape to them. So the June beetles, they're part of the Scarabaeidae family, so they're kind of big and chunky and like oval shape. This one's a little bit thinner looking. She's gonna have longer legs because she's predatorial, and that thorax, so that middle segment, is very much more distinct. So in this case, instead of being that big oval shape like your June or your May beetles, you're gonna have a very distinct head and then that thorax, and then she's gonna have that distinct abdomen. So you're gonna see these kind of three different parts very distinctly versus in those June beetles, it kind of just makes a little like that big oval shape. These guys again are most active during the nighttime and they tend to hang out in leaf litter during the daytime, versus the June beetles are more active during the daytime and hide during night. So I think like the time of day that you're seeing them is also kind of a giveaway on which one you're looking at.

Rachel

I love how iridescent their, their coloring is. Just such a beautiful beetle. Yeah. Time for your tips.

Emily

It is August. I don't want to do anything in my garden anymore. The mosquitoes are out. They're gross.

Mikaela

I'm tired, Mom. I don't want to do it anymore.

Rachel

Funny that you guys start off that way because that's the way I start off too. Like, hand raise, who's hot, tired, and doesn't want to be outside?

Emily

Our hands are up, listeners, for all the record.

Rachel

And if our plants had hands too, they would be up. Because this is the time of summer when our plants are usually the most stressed and are showing signs of stress because it's hot, it's dry, and diseases and pests are running rampant. So some things that we need to remember for August, right? If you planted a tree or shrub in the spring, you need to keep watering them. Most of the Mid-Atlantic is under a severe drought warning, So watering those plants is essential for their survival. Let the water soak into both the root ball and the surrounding soil. If you haven't already invested in Treegators or tree watering bags, think about it. They allow water to slowly seep into the ground over the course of the day. So they're designed to let water percolate into the ground over the course of about 5 to 9 hours and are really beneficial for that slow, deep watering. If you spot fall webworms, don't panic. These hairy caterpillars make up large web nests at the end of our tree branches, and they might look alarming, but we have many predators out there that are going to take care of them, you really don't need treatment, and you're gonna— they're gonna be a great source of protein for our birds.

Rachel

You might see other caterpillars like leafrollers or maple worms or even oak skeletonizers and maybe some sawflies this time of year. They also rarely require control. If you see any of our stinging caterpillars, like saddlebacks or puss moths, admire them from a long distance and leave them alone because we don't want you to get stung. So, August is prime time for familiar vegetable gardening pests, like our tomato hornworms that can strip a tomato plant overnight. So, check those plants regularly for missing leaves or dark frass, and if you see some dark frass, I bet you, you're gonna find a very large green caterpillar. Hornworms also fluoresce at night if you're using a black light flashlight, so you can go out bug hunting at night and find these very easily. You can hand pick them whenever possible. I usually have a trap crop that I kind of put them in, or you can, you know, deal with them how you see fit, but they usually do not need a pesticide to control them. If you find a hornworm caterpillar and he has these really awesome little white flecks of rice on his back, leave him alone.

Rachel

He's already been parasitized. He doesn't need any control from you. He's like the guy in Monty Python who's screaming, "I'm not dead yet," because he's going to be dead pretty soon. Squash vine borers continue to damage our squash and pumpkins by tunneling into the stems. They'll cause sudden wilting, What you want to do for these is just rip out the entire plant, and then I always put it in a black trash bag and let it bake in the sun. I don't add it back to my compost pile because that larvae is just going to continue to eat and then pupate in your compost pile, and there's nothing that I hate more than squash vine borers. I know you all like your lawn mowers, and there's nothing better for you than cranking up those babies on a Saturday morning, but give your neighbors and your lawns a break by skipping mowing during periods of extreme heat and drought if possible. Mowing stresses our lawn and increases moisture loss, which is going to cause more damage to your lawn. Brown patches usually show up in tall fescue, and that's caused by a fungal disease called brown patch.

Rachel

The good news is that grass usually recovers when cooler fall weather arrives, so you want to avoid over-fertilizing and over-watering, and please don't do any chemical treatments because they're not recommended. If you have hostas that are scorched from the August sun, you can remove those yellowing or scorched leaves, and this will help their appearance, and it will slow the spread of any fungal disease like anthracnose. If you have tomatoes that haven't been eaten by hornworms, you can pick those as soon as they start to change color, and they'll ripen perfectly on your kitchen counter. You might notice some of your tomatoes or peppers have pale spots just under the skin, like a pinprick. Stink bugs are usually the culprit for this. The damaged areas can be simply just cut away. It usually doesn't affect the flavor. Handpicking is the best option for defense for getting rid of stink bugs. It's also the time to harvest and preserve any of your culinary herbs like basil, rosemary, sage, even tarragon. Basil freezes beautifully, and many other herbs can be dried indoors and stored in airtight containers for use in the fall and winter. For best flavor, harvest just before the plant begins to bloom.

Rachel

All right, now we're going to go down the rabbit hole that I went in when I started looking up my tips. So we talked about fermenting fruit, right? And this is usually probably one of the biggest calls that I get as a horticulture agent in the mid to late summer. So late August, early September, we're going to see a spike in people calling about European hornets. And we get this spike for a few— a spike in calls for a few reasons. Their colonies are starting to reach maximum capacity with anywhere from 200 to 1,000 workers, which in turn makes the foragers in these colonies very active. And what do they like? Rotten, fallen fruit from our apple, pear, fig, and peach trees. Like most adults, me included, the foragers thrive on high-energy carbohydrates from fermenting fruit juice. So what can you do to deter these buzzing, aggressive little hornets? I shouldn't say little, they're not little. First and foremost, if you're allergic to bees, stay away and call a professional. If you're not, you need to proceed with caution because these babies pack a mean punch. Do an early morning cleanup of damaged or dropped fruit.

Rachel

Always make sure that you're wearing thick gloves and tuck your pants into your socks because they might be able to go up your pants and sting you. And why are we doing this activity in the early morning? Well, for a couple of reasons. Cooler temperatures make them sluggish, unlike the evening when they're actively foraging. Here's a fun fact. Did you know European hornet hornet foragers are actually nocturnal? This is why you'll see them by the porch light. Also, porch lights can disrupt their moon-based navigation, which draws them in to higher numbers in our human spaces. Ah, who doesn't love a fun fact?

Emily

That is a really neat fact, Rachel. That kind of makes me think—

Rachel

I know—

Emily

of the same issue with porch lights during the fall with the bird migrations. So like, this is a great example on why you should just get motion sensor lights, especially for like your backyard and stuff like that.

Rachel

Exactly. It also made me really want to do like a deep dive into hornets and do a whole episode of hornets. I mean, they're a— they have their place in the ecosystem, right?

Emily

Yeah.

Rachel

People don't like to have them around because they can become slightly aggressive if you're walking near their nest. If you're not near them, they're gonna be— they're not gonna hunt you down. Yeah, no, for sure, you're not what they're looking for. I digress, I'm out of the rabbit hole now. So, there's still time the first week of August to plant another crop of cilantro, basil, dill, and even your green beans. Your green beans might have taken a break from production in July because of our hot nights, and green beans kind of shut down, and they focus on plant growth and root growth versus pod production when our nighttime temperatures get over 75 degrees. And we know for the month of July, it was over 75 degrees at night. So, you might be able to sneak in another crop of green beans so that you can have a fall harvest. If you've completely given up on your summer garden, hey, it happens to the best of us, and that's okay. You're not alone. August is the perfect time, if you've given up, to rip everything out and start planning and planting for your cool season crops.

Rachel

Because we are technically only like, what, 6 weeks away from when our cool season crops are going to be the happiest. So you could plant things like spinach, lettuce, carrots, beets, broccoli, Chinese cabbage, turnips, kale, you name it. The fall crops are calling your name. Just make sure that you're keeping your new seedlings well watered, and mulched. And for things like broccoli, cauliflower, and even cabbage, I like to start those as transplants and then move them outside. Your lettuce, your spinach, carrots, beets, even radishes are very quick germinators, so you can start those to the end, at the end of August, and be completely fine. While you're planning your fall garden, Go ahead and order your garlic, your onions, and your shallots for fall planting. Even sneak in some of those wonderful spring flowering bulbs that we all love so much. That's all the tips of the month.

Emily

Thanks, Rachel! I have a long list of things to do in the very early morning before it gets too hot and buggy.

Rachel

Well, that's all we have for this episode, listener. We hope you enjoy it and will tune in next month for more gardening tips. If you have any garden-related questions, please email us at umegardenpodcast@gmail.com or look us up on Facebook at Garden Time podcast. That's Garden T-H-Y-M-E. For more information about the University of Maryland Extension and these topics, please check out the University of Maryland Extension Home and Garden Information Center website at go.umd.edu/hgic. Thanks for listening and have fun getting down and dirty in your garden.

Everyone

Goodbye!

Mikaela 

The Garden Thyme Podcast is a monthly podcast brought to you by the University of Maryland Extension. Mikaela Boley, Principal agent associate for Talbot County. Rachel Rhodes, senior agent associate for Queen Anne County, and Emily Zobel, senior agent associate for Dorchester County.

 
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